Twenty-six years ago, Vicente Fox Quesada defeated the dominant Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) to become the first president from an opposition party in Mexico, as the candidate of the conservative National Action Party (PAN). Today, at the age of 84, he looks back with nostalgia on the golden years of that transition, of which he was both the protagonist and beneficiary, and angrily describes the institutional erosion he blames on former and current presidents Andrés Manuel López Obrador and Claudia Sheinbaum. Fox recently returned from Peru, where he paid witness to the swearing-in of Keiko Fujimori, and seems enthusiastic about the rise of right-wing governments across the region; a spread for which he has a simple explanation: “When after two or three populist administrations there haven’t been any results, people say, ‘Enough.’”
In his hacienda, located on a ranch in Guanajuato, Fox spends his days planning how to prevent Sheinbaum’s ruling leftist Morena party from maintaining its legislative majority in the 2027 elections, which he sees as the only way to stop a political agenda he sees as dangerous and outdated. Along with business magnate Ricardo Salinas Pliego and some of the former members of his cabinet, he is promoting an initiative he calls Alma de México (Soul of Mexico), which focuses on finding and training local political leaders. Their idea is to prepare them for candidacy with the “democratic opposition” parties (PAN, PRI and Somos), to pave the way for a new Chamber of Deputies in next year’s legislative elections.
Question. How do you see the state of democracy in general at the moment?
Answer. Let’s go back 200 years, to that incredible idea the founding fathers in the United States had when they developed this concept of democracy as a model that would help to develop individuals and people, communities, cities and nations, that would guarantee justice, economic growth and job creation, to a just electoral competition that would be fair for all. A true dream, a true ideal. Then the rest of us came and somehow, we screwed up that whole idea that had been so well thought out and so brilliant. Today there are around 30 truly democratic countries. And the rest, we’re halfway democratic or we are democratic with low rates of participation, and many more are simulated democracies. Democracy has been used as a stepping stone to power, they invent a thousand promises, candidates get smart and look for how they can seize power; they get there, and may God have mercy on us. That’s happening all over the world. And then there’s the other distortion of democracy, which is populism.
Q. What is populism?
A. It is everything and nothing. It is a jump up to get to power, and once they arrive to power, they do whatever they feel like. They undermine all the principles and values of democracy, freedom and the market economy. They deal a blow to the market economy, they destroy institutions, and therefore, they have nothing to do with democracy. In today’s world, where there are democracies, there is economic success, job creation and progress and prosperity at very high levels. But there are only a handful of nations that are truly democratic.
Q. Among which you do not count Mexico?
A. Of course not. Are you messing with me or what?
Q. Democracy is in crisis, it has been said for years.
A. In Mexico there is no longer any crisis, it’s been eaten by the populists. How can you start governing a country and destroy an airport into which $13 billion has already been invested? That didn’t go through Congress, nor through the Mexican people, nor through the economic and business sector. It was approved in the turbulent mind of López Obrador. He came to take control and say, “Look Mexicans, I’m in charge here, and I’ll fuck up anyone who complains.” And then there is Claudia Sheinbaum, who is much more elegant, with a smile on her face, but she has already destroyed the judicial power, she’s already destroying the electoral authority, she has already destroyed all the checks and balances.
Q. To what do you attribute the rise of the right in Latin America?
A. The populist wave came from São Paulo, that’s where it took hold, and quickly won elections in several countries: Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, and that ideology of [leftist] populism triumphed. How did it do that? It’s very simple, “I will give you what you want, but you have to do what I say. Don’t protest, I will give you social services, I’ll bribe you, I’ll give you whatever you want, but you have to obey me.” Look at this monumental deception by López Obrador with his “the people, the people, the people.” Which people? They just decide, and steal. I used to say, “This can’t happen in Mexico because we’re next to the United States, because we’ve built a democratic tradition, because we’re a more structured country” — and damn it! López Obrador comes along and surprises us all.
Q. Why do you think López Obrador won?
A. Our mistake was to forget about the reality of the poor, of those who have the least, of those who have no opportunity. We didn’t do enough — not the businesspeople, not the governments — so that citizens would stand with their government. I mean, a large part of it is our fault.
Q. What does it tell you that Argentina, Colombia, Peru are turning to the right?
A. It’s the deception, the lack of follow-through by the populist governments. Pure “blah blah blah”: “I’m going to do this, I’m going to give you that, I am delivering for you, I will send you direct payments, I will create social services for you, but don’t worry, respect me, I am the government.” But the disappointment has been huge. When after two or three populist administrations there haven’t been any results, people say “enough.”
Q. 26 years have passed since you kicked the PRI out of the Los Pinos presidential palace, after a fight that went on for several generations. What do you see as having been the mistakes made by that transition government?
A. I look at it from a marketing perspective. To get into power, sometimes you offer too much, you promise too much. And then people’s enthusiasm and commitment to that leader start to erode, because the results don’t come as quickly as expected. But if you don’t make promises, someone else comes along and promises even more. Let me tell you something: I feel that the issue of social programs has been taken terribly off track. They’ve reached such a level that they’re now a joke, and look at Claudia Sheinbaum in the polls: when asked what Claudia does well, 90% say social programs. People say, “Claudia is good because she gives me money.” Come on! That money is going to run out, and that’s not the way to create upright, ethical, successful citizens who look out for their nation and for themselves. Social services destroy personal initiative and entrepreneurship, and they strip people of that desire to strive to become someone and achieve great goals. They lead you to comfort, to the tranquility of living a mediocre life; they destroy all human initiative.
Q. During your administration, what could you have done better?
A. I’m biting my tongue, because it’s a point in favor of that damn Lopitos [López Obrador], who destroyed the country, but he did have one good move: someone got an idea one day and told him, “Raise the minimum wage.” I had that opportunity, I talked about the notion with business leaders, I met with them once a month, and when I would mention the subject of wages, of raising them more quickly, the response was very negative, and I followed their lead. That is one of the things I could have done better. The other: revolutionize the educational system at top speed. Because that is the way to give people not money, but training, competitiveness, hunger for starting economic, creative, all kinds of projects. Not giving them money for them to lie around. And of course, that is going to come out and Morena is going to say, “Here comes Fox, he’s going to take your social services away,” and they’re going to crush me, but it’s important to speak the truth.
Q. What is the Soul of Mexico initiative you’re leading?
A. Vicente Fox, back in the saddle…
Q. Sounds like you want to do something before political retirement.
A. I am 84 years old. No man, look, what is it all about? History is repeating itself: 71 years of putting up with it until the bubble burst, which finally happened in 2000 — the PRI was out. But in eight years, these guys have done more damage to the country than the PRI did in 70. So what am I saying? That the only way to get rid of them is democratically, through the ballot box, and that’s why we have to foster civic engagement, why we have to convince people to vote, and why we have to take the first step — the one that’s actually within our reach — so that in 2027, no one has a majority. It’s not even about whether the opposition, the PAN, or the PRI will win — no. It’s about ensuring that no one has a majority, so that when it comes time to pass the budget, everyone in Congress has to reason, debate, put forward ideas, and make proposals — and so that Morena doesn’t get to control the entire budget. It’s so simple that I hope people understand it. And that’s what this is for: to identify and train leaders, and put them forward so that the parties can nominate them.
Q. Do you sleep well?
A. My life is routine, I get up at six o’clock in the morning, I go to bed at eight o’clock at night, and I sleep like an angel.
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